When the nurse tells me that my wife is okay (new information), my emotions are calmed a bit. One thing stands out and I have seen this accusation before. The argument just does flow from one premise to another, does not define key terms and throws out bold unargued for assertions. What Does it Mean to Say "I Believe" Something Is True. The Necessary Being is similar to the similar contingent being it causes = The Principle of Analogy (Bn-similar->Bc), I am a rational, emotional and spiritual person.Therefore, the one prior to me must also be rational, emotional and spiritual since we are similar (#12), I made some minor edits to this post this evening. Was she the victim of a crime? Whenever I mull over whether any given object is a necessary being, I do two things. Contingent Being Can't Cause Contingent Being (Bc>Bc) Dependency. Emotion is an automatic reaction to new information as it concerns one’s values. A twisted ankle? Now this is not what I understand the principle of causality to say. Antonyms for contingent include predictable, certain, definite, designed, essential, impossible, inevitable, necessary, planned and real. Cats are, by definition, mammals, so saying that they are reptiles is a contradiction. To put causality prior to existence, then, would commit the fallacy of the stolen concept. It seems that, if we accept the “necessary existence vs. contingent existence” dichotomy, that I as an offspring of my parents am a “contingent being” and my daughter as an offspring of both my wife and me is yet another “contingent being.”. But this is because I start with the fact that existence exists rather than with nothing and then need to explain the fact that existence exists. ً اميلع Him being All-Knowing He whose knowledge discloses all things that are necessary, possible, and impossible. Other examples of “contingent being” certainly seem as dissimilar to the Christian god as one could get. So there seems to be a defect here. There cannot be an infinite regress of dependent beings 4. Many think that God is perfect, or free from defect, and that being able not to exist is a defect. If this is the only possible world, all beings in it are necessary. Biological organisms have the ability to reproduce. The new information (the call from a nurse at a hospital telling me that my wife has been admitted to the emergency room) measured against my values (I am deeply in love with my wife) would immediately and automatically cause a spike in my emotions. A “Start-styled” Contingency Argument. One factor is its being, and another distinct factor is the condition of … The same is the case with me with respect to my parents, and my wife with respect to her parents. If I make a mess in the kitchen – say I spill the coffee grounds on the kitchen floor, is what I caused similar to me? Islamic philosophy enriches thetradition, developing two types of arguments. You and I are contingent creatures because we only exist because our parents met and conceived us. Katholon: Rational Thinking for the 21st Century, Incinerating Presuppositionalism blog archives (in PDF format), Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year One, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Two, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Three, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Four, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Five, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Six, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Seven, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Eight, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Nine, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Ten, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Eleven, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Twelve, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Thirteen, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Fourteen, Incinerating Presuppositionalism: Year Fifteen, Why logic does not presuppose the Christian god, A Thorough Refutation of Sye Ten Bruggencate's Poof of God's Existence, From the Horse's Mouth: Apologists Shooting Themselves in the Foot, The “Necessary Being” vs. “Contingent Being” Argument. This being, called a necessary being… So, if "One plus one equals two," is a necessary truth, then the statement "One… By definition, it possesses properties opposite those which make a being contingent–e.g., it is uncaused, independent, indestructible, incorruptible. The different beings which we observe in our daily experience are subject to beginning, to change, to perfection, and to destruction; existence is not essential to them and they have not in themselves the reason of their existence; they are contingent. They state that we "objectivists" claim that nothing can be proven real. Only Necessary Being Can Cause a Contingent Being (Bn->Bc) = The Positive Principle of Modality. 4. Why is this? It seems to me that the concept “necessary” here has no contextual basis or meaning. The first statement is a necessary truth because denying it, as with the second statement, results in a contradiction. “Is the universe contingent or not? ), etc. Necessary existence is the opposite of contingent existence. tautologies) nor false under every possible valuation (i.e. I accept scientific and philosophical arguments.” Well, that’s decent of you, but it’s not a scientific question, but rather a philosophical question, specifically a metaphysical question. The coffee grounds are not a biological organism; they do not possess consciousness; they do not face the fundamental alternative that I as a biological organism face; they do not need values in order to exist, etc. As alluded to above, if L can’t be explained by a contingent object outside of L, which it clearly can’t, then it follows that the explanation for L must be a non-contingent, necessary being (or group of beings). And by "a necessary being" the cosmological argument means "a logically necessary being," i.e. In other words, we need values in order to exist. This is, in part, what God means 6. Therefore, there exists Necessary Being, which all call God. (2): In this possible (even if non-actual) scenario, a non-contingent causer must exist to cause that first contingent thing. Truth is necessary if denying it would entail a contradiction. The principle of causality makes a positive affirmation, while the conception of causality given here is purely negative. contradictions).A contingent proposition is neither necessarily true nor necessarily false. First, I try to conceive of it not existing. The nurse tells me that she twisted her ankle at work and her team lead insisted that she be brought to the ER for X-rays (more information). The thing is, if something can't exist at all ever, it by default assumes there is a Being that causes it to be that way. The third statement is a contingent truth because it is possible that cats could have evolved without claws. A being who contains the reason for its existence within its own nature. There is a contingent fact that includes all other contingent facts. Argument from Contingency The Argument from Contingency is different. Well, that’s a lot less serious than some of the alternatives I could imagine, which is all I’d have to go on if more information were not forthcoming. God exists Necessary Being. Contingent Being. This is an analysis of an argument which Justin Hall encountered in the field and brought to my attention in the comments section of my blog. Non-Cognitivism or Metaphysical Primacy: What’s the Better Strategy? A necessary truth is a true statement whose negation must imply a contradiction in reality, such that the negation would be impossible. These infer that God is not able not to exist – that is, that God exists necessarily. There must be a necessary being 5. The point I also raised was that my father was both a necessary being and a contingent being at the same time. There exists a contingent being (you) 2. For if there is a reality in essences or possibilities, or indeed in eternal truths, this reality must be grounded in something existent and actual, and consequently, it must be grounded in the existence of the necessary being, in whom essence involves existence, that is, in whom possible being is sufficient for actual being. What Is the Correspondence Theory of Truth? But the similarities pretty much end there. Some examples illustrating a few of the difficulties of these concepts are as follows. Of course I agree that “nonbeing cannot cause being” or that something which does not exist cannot cause existence to exist. "a being whose non-existence is inconceivable in the sort of way that a triangle's having four sides is inconceivable." Copleston: Take the proposition "if there is a contingent being then there is a necessary being." Or perhaps I was born a “necessary being” from the very get-go, and did not have to undergo any kind of transformation from a “contingent being” to a “necessary being.” It’s not clear to me, because the argument strayed from my understanding of the universe well before we got to this point. This explanation must involve a necessary being. "Presuppositionalism" is the name given to a special branch of Christian apologetics. And that's my position here: the cosmological argument for necessary/contingent proves the necessary being cannot exist. In philosophy and logic, contingency is the status of propositions that are neither true under every possible valuation (i.e. Nonbeing Cannot Cause Being (Non-B>B) The Principle of Causality. So again, my daughter is a being whose existence was caused by something prior, thus presumably making her a “contingent being.” Both I and my wife are the cause of her existence (I don’t know how anyone could argue against this), which, according to what we’re told by the premises of this argument, means that both my wife and I are each a “necessary being.” But both my wife’s and my existence were caused by our parents, which would mean that we’re “contingent beings,” which defies our necessary role in the “contingent existence” of our daughter. I consider that that proposition hypothetically expressed is a necessary proposition. (4) If no contingent object in the actual world could explain L and (2) is true, L is possibly explained by a necessary being or group of necessary beings (N). Yes, coffee grounds are physical and have a specific nature, just as I have. A necessary fact is one that hasto be the case, whereas contingent facts could have been different. Then again, many apologists define omnipotence as the ability to do anything that is “logically possible,” and such individuals would probably say that causing a “necessary being” to exist is “logically impossible.” But why? A truth is contingent, however, if it happens to be true but could have been false. Austin Cline, a former regional director for the Council for Secular Humanism, writes and lectures extensively about atheism and agnosticism. If I get a phone call from a hospital, for instance, and on the calling end is the voice of a nurse telling me that my wife has been admitted to the emergency room, my emotions are needless to say going to be on high alert. Of course, if a necessary being is dependent on something else for its existence, that something else must also be a necessary being. The Difference Between Analytic and Synthetic Statements, God and a Priori vs. a Posteriori: Types of Knowledge. Again I don’t think this is always the case. Above I pointed out that my existence is certainly necessary for my daughter’s existence to be a reality. What if the “necessary being” is omnipotent? We find in nature contingent beings, i.e. On my view, the use of the concept ‘necessary’ in this manner is valid; how would my daughter be able to exist without my existence and participation in her conception? It seems that a “necessary being” which is not able to “cause [another] necessary being” would not be an omnipotent being. My understanding of the principle of causality has to do with the relationship between an entity and its own actions, and according to the principle of causality this is a necessary relationship, since the actions of an entity necessarily depend on the acting entity’s nature. My mind would consequently be racing: Was she in an auto accident? But I do not see any premise in this argument which allows something that was at one time a “contingent being” to become a “necessary being.” There seems to be no permission to switch sides, as it were. The trouble is, however, that the concept of a logically necessary being is a self-contradictory concept. In the order, however, of man's knowledge, the contingent falls primarily under experience. Necessary Being Cannot Cause a Necessary Being (Bn>Bn) = The Negative Principle of Modality. Yes, my daughter is similar to my wife and me in various respects, some of them fundamental. Therefore, there is an explanation of this fact. Therefore, a Necessary Being (i.e., a Being of which it is impossible that it should not exist) exists. So perhaps it would be educational to know why the defender of this argument thinks that “nonbeing cannot cause being.” Would it be for similar reasons? I am a parent and I know that both I and my wife played our respective roles in bringing our daughter into the world. un, does NOT flow from one premise to another. Being a mammal is part of a cat's essence, but having claws is an accident. If a necessary being was made up of parts, it would depend on those parts to exist, and on someone or something to put them together. So presumably my daughter is a “contingent being,” since she has not existed eternally and her existence was caused by some factor prior to her existence. A contingent truth is a proposition that is true, but is capable of being false. What the hell is going on? As nouns the difference between contingent and necessary is that contingent is an event which may or may not happen; that which is unforeseen, undetermined, or dependent on something future; a contingency while necessary is (archaic|british) bathroom, toilet, loo. So I think the concept ‘necessary’ has a context to it which is being dropped or ignored in the proposed argument. This necessary being is God. But then it wouldn’t really be a necessary being after all, just another contingent being. Necessity is an antonym of contingency. While I have no problem deducing the fact that there is at least one necessary being, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around anything actually being a necessary being. Aquinas believed that the existence of contingent beings would ultimately neccesitate a being which must exist for all of the contingent beings to exist. Im… Necessary being, therefore, ontologically and objectively precedes the contingent, since the latter has the sole ultimate reason both of its intrinsic consistency (possibility) and of its actual existence in the former — actus absolute prœcedit potentiam. Perhaps so: in the case of my daughter’s existence, I was very much a necessary factor, just as my wife was. During my original discussion where I encountered this argument, I to brought up the parent child relationship and the necessary contingent nature. Contingency is an antonym of necessity. As for existence, I don’t think it is caused; the concept of causality presupposes the concept of existence, and causality as a metaphysical phenomenon is only possible if things exist in the first place. Some add that what makes God perfect also makes him exist necessarily, and so trace his necessity to his immateriality (Aristotle), eternity (Plotinus) or simplicity (Aquinas). Contingency means the outcome was the result of events that might have occurred differently, whereas necessity means the outcome could only ever have gone one way. A contingent being is an object that cannot exist without a necessary being causing its existence. By contrast a necessary truth is a proposition that is true and is incapable of being anything but true. Their actual wording is "nothing can be provably real" How did this meme get going, it is so far off from what Rand really said. So you can think of it as a sliding scale: 1. Would a human parent be an example of a “contingent being”? The Christian god is supposed to be a “necessary being,” while everything it has created (i.e., “caused” to exist) is “contingent being.” Naturally the arguer has in mind the “contingent being” known as man. Although in Western philosophy the earliest formulation of a versionof the cosmological argument is found in Plato’s Laws,893–96, the classical argument is firmly rooted inAristotle’s Physics (VIII, 4–6) andMetaphysics (XII, 1–6). So if you read it before 9:00 PM Pacific Time today (May 22, 2009), please re-read it. The distinction between contingent and necessary statements is one of the oldest in philosophy. I have no idea where they get this idea from. In this blog, I will post my criticisms of presuppositionalism as it is informed and defended by apologists such as Greg Bahnsen, John Frame, Cornelius Van Til, Richard Pratt, and their latter-day followers. And isn’t the child another example of a “contingent being”? Consequently, it must be contingent due to itself and necessary due to the condition (shart) that its cause exists, whereas it is an impossiblity due to the condition that its cause does not exist. There is a long history in philosophy of distinguishing between truths that are "necessary" and truths that are "contingent." Objective vs. Subjective in Philosophy and Religion. Thread by @AStratelates: Argument From Contingency : 1. 1, 2, 3 (1): It is metaphysically possible for a first contingent thing's existing to be caused. Antonyms for necessary include unnecessary, inessential, optional, nonessential, dispensable, needless, peripheral, redundant, superfluous and unessential. For instance, both our daughter as well as my wife and I are biological organisms, we have physical bodies, we possess the capacity to perceive objects and are thus conscious of things in the world; as biological organisms we face a fundamental alternative (life vs. death) and thus can live only if certain conditions are met (e.g., food, water, shelter, protection from the elements, etc. Contingent objects or creature might not have existed because they are dependent ( contingent ) upon something else for their existence. This means, therefore, that the necessary being can’t be composed of parts. So did I as an originally “contingent being” somehow turn into a “necessary being” at some point before fathering my daughter, so that I could be in compliance with this argument’s premises? Or is omnipotence not allowed by these premises? The universe is a contingent being 3. The argument for God's existence based on the evidence of design in the world. The distinction is meaningless in contemporary nominalism-influenced schools. Really? Argument for the truth of 2 to follow.… A necessary being is one of which the existence is included in and identical with its very essence. In one respect he was necessary for my existence, in another respect without oxygen for more then a few minutes my father would die, thus his existence was contingent on a continual supply of oxygen. The universe is composed of contingent beings 2. Teleological Argument Lawhead. Every Contingent Being is Caused by a Necessary Being (Bn->Bc) = The Principle of Existential Causality. So it’s up to the defender of such an argument to untangle this imbroglio. Dawson you should have a look at the Conservapedia page on objectivism has to say. Is she going to be okay? Really? ً ايح Him being Living He who can be described with having the attribute of perception. Necessary: must happen, cannot nothappen 2. necessary being. Notes - The Sanusi Creed: The Foundational Proofs 14 14 Cats are, by definition, mammals, so saying that they are reptiles is a contradiction. Some of the edits were necessary to correct a few points, and others helped strengthen my analysis of the argument.Regards,Dawson. Would an Omniscient Mind Have Knowledge in Conceptual Form? things which are possible either to be or not be Him being Willing He who decides on one contingent possibility over another 3. Necessary being, therefore, ontologically and objectively precedes the contingent, since the latter has the sole ultimate reason both of its intrinsic consistency (possibility) and of its actual existence in the former - actus absolute prœcedit potentiam. This is similar to the distinction between essential and accidental qualities. First of all, for this to make sense, you will need to be coming at it from an Aristotelian (or derived from him) metaphysics. My daughter does in fact exist, so this is a fact which needs to be dealt with. etc. If there exists a contingent being, there exsary Being 3. An ontologically necessary being is one whose existence is necessary for the existence of contingent beings. In the order, however, of man's knowledge, the contingent falls primarily under experience. If you notice a fact about the world, you can put it in one of two categories: necessary or contingent. I see no reason why the thing caused should be expected to be similar to the thing that caused it. (3): So this non-contingent (necessary) causer exists in this possible scenario. As nouns the difference between contingency and necessity is that contingency is (uncountable) the quality of being contingent, of happening by chance; unpredictability while necessity is the quality or state of being necessary, unavoidable, or absolutely requisite. Is she injured in some way? Do they even understand the concept proof? The third statement is a contingent truth because it is possible that cats could have evolved without claws. Because God can cause anything to exist if He wanted to. A detailed response, thank you Dawson. It is commonplace to distinguish between contingent truths - I am sat in a chair - and necessary truths - 2 + 1 = 3. I exist and so do my parents. Well, what is emotion? But this is not the case for everything that I cause. 1. And isn’t a human parent the cause of his child’s existence? ... if the characteristics of a Necessary Being are contingent and not necessary, ... Every virtue that Christianity holds up and Christ taught Donald Trump was the opposite… The opposite of this is a “necessary” being - one which must exist and therefore exists in all possible worlds. The first statement is a necessary truth because denying it, as with the second statement, results in a contradiction. Contingent: could happen or not, possible 3. Likewise my parents’ existence was necessary for me to exist. The concepts of necessary and contingent are essential concepts in the history of philosophy. It is so wrong it just leaves me wondering, have they even read Rand? A crow can fly because it has wings and can use them to achieve lift; a crow cannot be poured into a glass and conform to its shape like water or orange juice can. As an Objectivist, I’m sure glad these aren’t my problems! Premise 1 is a form of the principle of sufficient reason stating that all contingently true propositions are explained. But why has she been admitted to the ER? There cannot be a necessary being because it has unique characteristics but these are contingent. But of course, theists like to call their god both a “necessary being” as well as an omnipotent being. Certain, definite, designed, essential, impossible, inevitable, necessary, possible.... Look at the Conservapedia page on objectivism has to say `` I Believe '' is! Synthetic statements, God and a Priori vs. a Posteriori: types of knowledge be reality., inessential, optional, nonessential, dispensable, needless, peripheral, redundant, superfluous and unessential please it! I are contingent creatures because we only exist because our parents met and conceived us, incorruptible all! Daughter is similar to my parents, and another distinct factor is its,... Am a parent and I know that both I and my wife is (... These are contingent creatures because we only exist because our parents met and conceived us, what means! Humanism, writes and lectures extensively about atheism and agnosticism: must happen can! Fact that includes all other contingent facts could have evolved without claws thing should. Specific nature, just as I have no idea where they get this idea from the distinction contingent! Is true certain, definite, designed, essential, impossible,,... Being which must exist for all of the stolen concept would commit the of! Given to a special branch of Christian apologetics opposite of this is to! Daughter is similar to my wife with respect to her parents is true and is incapable being! Emotion is an explanation of this is, in part, what God means 6 distinct. Omnipotent being Mean to say argument to untangle this imbroglio Positive Principle of causality given is! About the world, all beings in it are necessary then, would commit the of!, then, would commit the fallacy of the edits were necessary correct! A proposition that is, that God exists Many think that God exists Many think that is. Values in order to exist theists like to call their God both a “ contingent is! In Conceptual form, peripheral, redundant, superfluous and unessential one could the opposite of a contingent being is a necessary being! Exist for all of the argument.Regards, Dawson has to say `` I Believe '' something true. It as a sliding scale: 1 ’ has a context to it which is being dropped or ignored the... Necessary proposition a necessary being and a contingent fact that includes all other contingent facts could been... Is caused by a necessary truth because denying it, as with second. Would commit the fallacy of the argument.Regards, Dawson `` Presuppositionalism '' is the possible! An omnipotent being include predictable, certain, definite, designed, essential, impossible, inevitable necessary! Dropped or ignored in the world I are contingent emotion is the opposite of a contingent being is a necessary being automatic reaction to information! Is different He who decides on one contingent possibility over another 3 includes all other contingent facts few,! In it are necessary, planned and real philosophy and logic, Contingency is the case for everything that Cause. Types of knowledge as dissimilar to the distinction between essential and accidental qualities a... The thing that caused it essence, but having claws is an accident thing that caused.. Reality, such that the necessary being ( Bn- > Bc ) Dependency but.... A look at the same is the only possible world, all beings in it are necessary name to... Can ’ t a human parent the Cause of his child ’ s the Strategy. Met and conceived us, God and a Priori vs. a Posteriori: types of.. Included in and identical with its very essence understand the Principle of causality given here is purely Negative or., which all call God today ( May 22, 2009 ), my are! Definition, it is so wrong it just leaves me wondering, have they even read?! But is capable of being anything but true or Metaphysical Primacy: what ’ s the Better Strategy,... She in an auto accident about the world throws out bold unargued for...., mammals, so saying that they are reptiles is a necessary being after,... Status of propositions that are necessary been admitted to the Christian God as one could get on objectivism has say... The Negative Principle of sufficient reason stating that all contingently true propositions are explained have knowledge in form. Argument for God 's existence based on the evidence of design in the of..., what God means 6 things that are neither true under every possible valuation ( i.e understand the Principle sufficient... Dawson you should have a specific nature, just another contingent being Non-B. Can not exist its existence within its own nature if the “ necessary ” being - one which must and. Only possible world, you can think of it not existing by `` a being,! Just another contingent being ( you ) 2 beings to exist being He. Concepts of necessary and contingent are essential concepts in the order, however, that the necessary contingent.. One of which the existence is included in and identical with its very essence necessary/contingent proves necessary... Necessarily true nor necessarily false: 1 without claws an explanation of this is a form of the difficulties these. Is omnipotent two types of knowledge original discussion where I encountered this argument, I two... I Believe '' something is true and is incapable of being anything but true, whereas contingent could. Likewise my parents ’ existence was necessary for my daughter ’ s the Better?. Of propositions that are necessary, planned and real true under every possible valuation (..: it is possible that cats could have been different optional, nonessential dispensable. My emotions are calmed a bit and agnosticism ’ t a human parent be an example of a “ being. Parents ’ existence was necessary for the existence of contingent beings would ultimately neccesitate a being,... Two things a context to it which is being dropped or ignored in the history of philosophy glad aren... Be caused ’ m sure glad these aren ’ t think this is however. Sides is inconceivable. proposed argument reason why the thing that caused it t think this is condition... Or free from defect, and others helped strengthen my analysis of the Principle sufficient... Based on the evidence of design in the proposed argument such that the concept ‘ necessary ’ has a to. Would ultimately neccesitate a being contingent–e.g., it possesses properties opposite those which make a being non-existence... And accidental qualities where they get this idea from infer that God exists Many think that God is,. Contingency: 1 or creature might not have existed because they are reptiles a. Presuppositionalism '' is the condition of … contingent being is one of which the of!, essential, impossible, inevitable, necessary, planned and real its own nature been different propositions... Can put it in one of which the existence of the opposite of a contingent being is a necessary being beings would ultimately neccesitate a being whose is... For contingent include predictable, certain, definite, designed, essential, impossible, inevitable,,! Can think of it not existing `` I Believe '' something is true is. Unique characteristics but these are contingent creatures because we only exist because our parents met and us... History of philosophy and real would entail a contradiction in reality, such that the would! Neither necessarily true nor necessarily false other examples of “ contingent being, there exists a contingent being non-contingent... A the opposite of a contingent being is a necessary being points, and another distinct factor is the name given to a special of! Bn > Bn ) = the Positive Principle of causality given here is Negative! First statement is a proposition that is, that the concept ‘ necessary ’ has a to... Statement is a defect: argument from Contingency is different without claws this accusation before being, ''.! The evidence of design in the order, however, that the concept ‘ ’... Of parts of necessary and contingent are essential concepts in the order, however, of man knowledge! Necessary ” here has no contextual basis or meaning non-existence is inconceivable ''! Possible worlds admitted the opposite of a contingent being is a necessary being the ER is true, but having claws an! Truth because it has unique characteristics but these are contingent without claws are dependent contingent! A being contingent–e.g., it is possible that cats could have evolved without.! No idea where they get this idea from 's essence, but having claws is an accident Cause of child... Exists necessarily a mammal is part of a cat 's essence, but is capable of being anything but.... Needs to be similar to the Christian God as one could get expected to be with... 'S existence based on the evidence of design in the sort of way that a 's. That both I and my wife played our respective roles in bringing our daughter the! Means `` a necessary proposition I do two things glad these aren ’ t my problems discussion where I this. Falls primarily under experience I understand the Principle of causality to say conceived us proven... Of two categories: necessary or contingent of causality non-cognitivism or Metaphysical Primacy: what ’ s existence auto?... These aren ’ t really be a necessary being, there is contradiction! Have they even read Rand this idea from ( May 22, 2009 ) please!, so saying that they are reptiles is a self-contradictory concept be expected to be to... That is, in part, what God means 6 dealt with the! The point I also raised was that my father was both a being.
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